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cal-Q-L8
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28. Sep 2009 at 06:16
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Ok, so let's have a go at including other stuff on this forum besides individual boy movies. Things happen all the time that are worth discussing... so this is a kind of anything goes thread.

We could keep adding to this thread when interesting things happen:

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I was startled to read in the paper today that Roman Polanski has been arrested:

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I'm rather hoping the Swiss authorities will resort to common sense and not hand him over to the US.
  
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Re: News
Reply #1 - 28. Sep 2009 at 07:57
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I agree with you Cal. This whole incident smells of politics, to me. Even the girl in the case says she does not want him prosecuted. I think some over zealous prosecutor wants to make an example of him because he's a celebrity.
I hope they don't extradite him to the US but unless a deal can be made, he will be. I think this whole thing is vindictive. He should be forgiven and left alone in peace. I feel sorry for him.
  
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Phenom
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Re: News
Reply #2 - 28. Sep 2009 at 09:02
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Quote:
I agree with you Cal. This whole incident smells of politics, to me. Even the girl in the case says she does not want him prosecuted. I think some over zealous prosecutor wants to make an example of him because he's a celebrity.
I hope they don't extradite him to the US but unless a deal can be made, he will be. I think this whole thing is vindictive. He should be forgiven and left alone in peace. I feel sorry for him.


I agree with you in some ways. However, their is the other side of things to be looked at. First, may I point out that he has already been prosecuted and found guilty of the offense. He fled while on bond awaiting final sentencing.

Today I saw many people protesting his arrest and calling on the Swiss government not to extridite him and let him go and for the authorities to leave him alone. Some people even going so far as to say that he has already paid his debt to society. Really, paid his debt to society when? He spend a total of 42 days in custody before being released on bail for an offense that could have put him behind bars for the majority of the rest of his life. What, he paid his debt to society by managing to avoid arrest and incarceration for almost 4 decades and while making millions of dollars and enjoying the good life in France. 

People also just refer to the offense he commited as unlawful sex with an underage girl. Let's call it what it was...California Penal Code Section 288(a) Lewd and Lascivious Acts with a Minor under 14 also known as Child Molestation. He also did so by plying the victim with the use of an intoxicating agent and illegal drug which a seperate offense. Hardly any form of consentual act. These acts were clearly planned and done in a predatory fashion. In other words he was not an innocent man.

Lets look at that celebrity claim. Now do you really think that if it was you or me or any other ordinary citizen off the streets accused and convicted of such a crime that people would be protesting our arrest or calling for our release or saying that we're already paid our debt to society and we should be left alone or even better yet 'given a second chance.' Not hardly. As with the majority of people convicted of this class of offense, even after they have served their time and have paid their debt to society, do you see the general public supporting them or speaking out for people to leave them alone. Let's see now...Megan's Law, Jennifer's Law, ect. They are marked, tracked, harrassed, and hounded for life. Come on now, let's be real here. His celebrity and fame and success as a director are the reasons people are standing behind and supporting him. Oh, he does so much good for the world with his movies so he should be treated better or differently than any ordinary individual convicted of child molestation. Please, give me a freaking break.

That being said, I have enjoyed many of his films and I love his work but he doesn't deserve to be treated any different from anyone else convicted of the same crime or that fled while out on bail and managed to elude arrest for decades. Sure I think he should be forgiven for his past mistakes esspecially after living a clean and crime free life ever since but that is after he does his time or at least a reasonable amount of time just like the rest of us. Either everybody should be punished and do thier time for a given crime equally or nobody should be. That's what is refered to as 'equal justice.'
  
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cal-Q-L8
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Re: News
Reply #3 - 28. Sep 2009 at 11:20
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The reason he fled from justice in the first place was because the judge and the prosecutor backed out of a plea bargain that was made before he admitted his guilt.

I've seen many similar cases where people admit to doing things if they are given a lighter sentence. They do this because they are not confident they will get a fair trial or maybe they feel that a jury will convict them on circumstantial evidence, thus resulting in a much heavier sentence.

Polanski was still suffering from a major trauma at the time, and the girl was introduced to him by her mother. I always suspected he was set up by the mother in an effort to extort money from him.

He's led a crime free life as far as I know for 32 years. His reputation was severely damaged and his movements were limited. He's constantly been under intense scrutiny.

The girl was 13. I've seen plenty that age that look 16 or 17. Many countries have a much lower age of consent. California Law sucks shit!

Laws are supposedly made to protect people not to satisfy the whims of the morally up-righteous. IMO, putting Polanski in jail after all these years serves no purpose whatsoever other than to satisfy the stuck up over zealous 'moral' wankers.

Besides, the 'victim' had already asked that the charges be dropped.
  
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Re: News
Reply #4 - 28. Sep 2009 at 14:24
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An interesting and thoughtfully written article about..

Coming Out in Middle School

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Re: News
Reply #5 - 28. Sep 2009 at 18:43
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Even the girl in the case says she does not want him prosecuted.


He's already been prosecuted and found guilty. (That was why he fled in the first place.) It's a bit late for her to drop the charges.
  
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Re: News
Reply #6 - 28. Sep 2009 at 19:09
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re Polanski: the usual vindictive hysteria. Remind me to avoid Switzerland if I flee from a tainted conviction.
  
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Re: News
Reply #7 - 29. Sep 2009 at 04:23
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As one of the more conservative ones (relatively speaking   Smiley  ) in this group, I'll side up with Phenom on the Polanski deal.
He was convicted of his original crime and has a sentence waiting for him that needs to be addressed.
While I have read that there were numerous mitigating factors (regarding the girl and her mother and their lifestyles), these should be/have been taken into account at sentencing. Polanski's running makes him appear to be far guiltier than he may actually be.
The idea that justice is for everyone is ill served by the perception that those with resources can avoid consequences.
With that said though, I think justice for the underlying crime is not important anymore (if it ever were) and were I a California taxpayer, I would hate to see much more of my tax dollars spent on that aspect of this story.
*********************************
The NYT story was interesting. I have been in the neighborhood that the youth center is in many times. It would be among the last places I would figure such a center would locate.

I'm skeptical of any strong identity declarations at any age, much less at a young one though, so I can't say I wholeheartedly support the mission as it was described. I also worry that investing too much emphasis on one aspect of a person's life will allow for them to be easily categorized and marginalized.

Kids do need positive support though as they develop themselves and I'm glad there are people and places willing to provide that - especially in Oklahoma! 
  
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Re: News
Reply #8 - 29. Sep 2009 at 04:31
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cal-Q-L8 wrote on 28. Sep 2009 at 11:20:
The reason he fled from justice in the first place was because the judge and the prosecutor backed out of a plea bargain that was made before he admitted his guilt.

I've seen many similar cases where people admit to doing things if they are given a lighter sentence. They do this because they are not confident they will get a fair trial or maybe they feel that a jury will convict them on circumstantial evidence, thus resulting in a much heavier sentence.

Polanski was still suffering from a major trauma at the time, and the girl was introduced to him by her mother. I always suspected he was set up by the mother in an effort to extort money from him.

He's led a crime free life as far as I know for 32 years. His reputation was severely damaged and his movements were limited. He's constantly been under intense scrutiny.

The girl was 13. I've seen plenty that age that look 16 or 17. Many countries have a much lower age of consent. California Law sucks shit!

Laws are supposedly made to protect people not to satisfy the whims of the morally up-righteous. IMO, putting Polanski in jail after all these years serves no purpose whatsoever other than to satisfy the stuck up over zealous 'moral' wankers.

Besides, the 'victim' had already asked that the charges be dropped.


Cal, I hear what you're saying and I don't necessarily want to see him go to prison at 76 and with so much more to contribute to the film industry. I couldn't agree with you more on many of your points.

I well understand the legal system esspecially in California having been a victim of it and later becoming a Certified Paralegal. I am well aware of the "Plea Bargaining" process and the pros and cons of it. If the Judge and D.A. were going to back out of the plea agreement, did back out of it, or changed the conditions of such without informing the defense prior to the defendant Mr. Polanski pleading guilty, then the plea agreement is no good and the guilty plea in not a valid plea. His lawyers could have or should have either filed a motion to demand "Specific Performance" of the original plea agreement or a "Motion To Vacate" the guilty plea. If what is claimed happened during the trial proceedings is true then is does constitute misconduct on both the parts of the judge and prosecution. His lawyers should have dealt with these issues and resolved them back then. Since this was all the results of a plea agreement and not a trial it is doubtful that the appeals courts can or will get involved as there really is no recourse in the appellete courts from a guilty plea.

I have seen pictures of the girl from the time of the incident as she was an aspiring model and actress and it is very obvious that she is only 12-13 years old to me. Of course, he was introduced to the girl by her parent as that is the way it works, and nobody in that business or any other business is going to be meeting a minor privately or without a parent present as it is both deemed inappropriate and possibly suicidal to your reputation. Besides, you cannot enter into any form of legal agreement or contract with a minor as it is not vaild or enforceable. So that arguement doesn't work.

I am also well aware of what Mr. Polanski went through or was going through with the Tate/Labionca murders at the hands on the Manson Family. I had just moved to Los Angeles around that time when I was a kid. Yeah, I can see him starting to drink or use drugs or something but as I understand he was already doing so long before the murders as it was commonplace then in the industry. However, I do not see it as an excuse or defense to drug and molest a child.

Age-Of-Consent laws in the United States vary somewhat but in most states it is 18 years old, in most of the others it is 16, in a few it varies from 15-13. However, there is a push to change those laws and make them all 18. The U.S. Government is even pushing the conservatives in Canada to change their laws to up their age of consent laws to 18 as they did with England and other countries. Yup, the good old U.S. of A sticking it's self-righteous noses in the rest of the world's business as usual. Yes, California Laws such shit and that is not just the statute laws but also the case laws interpreting statute laws in California to make them even broader, harsher, and more draconian than the legislatures intended when they wrote them. And it doesn't end when you get out of prison on a sex charge in California. That's when the other set of nightmares begins.

At the end of the day if or when Mr. Polanski is extradicted back to the U.S. if the claims of misconduct are true and the plea deal was changed before Mr. Polanski pled guilty without the defense being put on notice and given the opportunity to withdraw from the plea agreement, and either negotiate a new agreement or go to trial, then the guilty plea should be set aside and the case should be returned to the "Status Quo Ante" or back to square one. If that happens and the defense demands to go to trial with the mutual understanding that the witness will NOT testify then prosecution at this point will be almost a Moot issue. Yes, if there was a Preliminary Hearing conducted prior to the plea agreement where the girl already testified, which is usually the case because it is a legal requirment to establish cause to bind a defendant over for trial, then they do have that. However, if he goes to trial she would need to testify at the trial to and failure to do so denies the defense the right to "cross-examine" the witness which violates the defendant constitutional protections under the Sixth Amendment and Due Process under both the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments. So any convictions or prison at this time is nearly impossible without the victims testimony and with the legal team he can afford now pretty much forget about it. Sorry about the rant.  Embarrassed
  
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cal-Q-L8
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Re: News
Reply #9 - 29. Sep 2009 at 06:09
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Sorry about the rant


No problem at all. I apprecate your input. Thanks for the detailed response.

On another topic did anyone read this:

Coming out in Middle School:
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