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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Oliver Twist (2005) (Read 37,973 times)
nicko9
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Re: Oliver Twist (Roman Polanski version)
Reply #15 - 07. Sep 2005 at 14:31
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HOW MANY VERSIONS ARE THEY GOING TO MAKE, ITS GETTING SILLY NOW.
  
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Re: Oliver Twist (Roman Polanski version)
Reply #16 - 08. Sep 2005 at 06:44
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is it silly?

classic plays are endlessly revisited in the theatre - so there's no reason why filmmakers shouldn't wish to reinterpret classic movies.
  
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Re: Oliver Twist (Roman Polanski version)
Reply #17 - 08. Sep 2005 at 08:12
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Theatre is hardly a comparison. Theatre is a live event. It happens once and then it's over. There is usually no record of it, but even if it's been videotaped and recorded, you can't really live the same experience in all its intensity unless you are there in the audience while it's happening.

So it makes sense that classic plays should be recreated over and over again. That's the only way for these plays to remain alive.

Cinema, on the other hand, has a much longer lifespan. I still watch movies that were made 50, 60 years ago, and the truly great ones haven't lost any of their power.

For example, I saw the original Frankenheimer version of The Manchurian Candidate a few days ago. It was brilliant and I loved it. I can't understand why it was necessary to remake (or "update" or "reimagine" or whatever they called it) this film in 2004, when the original is widely available on DVD and every bit as powerful as it was in 1962.

On the other hand, I am certainly not complaining about this new version of Oliver Twist. Although I don't really understand Polanski's choice of project, I think he's a very good director and I'm sure the result will be interesting.
  
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Re: Oliver Twist (Roman Polanski version)
Reply #18 - 10. Sep 2005 at 13:33
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How many cinema versions of Oliver Twist have been released in the last 50 or so years?

None!!

...as far as I know... all have been TV versions.

The musical Oliver was released in 1968..

..the last proper non-musical version made for cinemas was in 1948...  it was in black and white.

Question? Has there ever been a cinematic version of Oliver Twist filmed in colour? Not counting the musical.
  
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Re: Oliver Twist (Roman Polanski version)
Reply #19 - 10. Sep 2005 at 14:14
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I think there has been

even starred elijah wood.

Oops checking that was a tv version
  
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Re: Oliver Twist (Roman Polanski version)
Reply #20 - 11. Sep 2005 at 08:57
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The Polanski Oliver Twist is getting good reviews - one review says that it is "easily on a par with David Lean's 1948 version".
It's due to open in the UK on October 7th.
  
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Re: Oliver Twist (Roman Polanski version)
Reply #21 - 12. Sep 2005 at 18:35
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The actor who plays Oliver was interviewed on BBC News 24 last week.  He said he'd watched the David Lean film and the Mark Lester musical, though he "hadn't read the novel" (which sounded super-cute).  He has some very good, Polanski-inspired scenes with Fagin in the movie.
  
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Re: Oliver Twist (Roman Polanski version)
Reply #22 - 27. Sep 2005 at 05:53
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another interview on bbc regional news.

i can't remember when i saw it.

if it was sunday the sunday edition is not online.

if it was monday the monday edition can be seen online for seven days.

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barney and harry eden said they played `knock down ginger` in the prague hotel where they were staying and almost got thrown out.

  
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Re: Oliver Twist (Roman Polanski version)
Reply #23 - 29. Sep 2005 at 22:03
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Only 54% on the Rotten Tomatoes scale. The critics are a little underwhelmed.

I still want to see it, of course, but mostly because the boy playing Oliver is cute and given Polanski's talent, I'm sure it will be well made.

But I'm not that excited. It is a tale that has been told way too many times. By all accounts, Polanski has made a very faithful adaptation. But the question is why bother?

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Re: Oliver Twist (Roman Polanski version)
Reply #24 - 30. Sep 2005 at 03:53
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Thanks for pointing me to those Rotten Tomatoes reviews. You expect critics to disagree but it is curious here to see HOW two of them disagree.
Excerpt from one review:
"Roman Polanski's twist on Dickens brings the classic back with a new look and a mild tone. . . . In the end, Polanski has rendered a version of "Oliver" that's so safe, it's pretty much a case of baby-sitting by movie. No nightmares, guaranteed."

Another reviewer says:
"To see little Oliver spanked, punched in the gut, shot in the arm, and shuttled back and forth between leering grotesques, all in brutal detail, doesn’t shed any relevant new light on Dickens’ story. . . . common are gloomy scenes of women, children, and dogs being beaten, yelled at, and threatened with murder. Any parents thinking of bringing their young kids to this very-hard-PG-13 downer have hereby been warned."
  
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fagin the jew!
Reply #25 - 30. Sep 2005 at 04:13
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polanski's new movie : trigger for academic-style discussion.

creative depictions of `the jew` .

can be heard online for next seven days.

i don't how people become anti-semitic : when i was at boarding school a jewish boy joined our dorm and immediately everyone began `shylock`-style stroking of the nose and remarks about hoarding money etc.

we were only about 12 or 12 yet they had somehow internalised this prejudice.

i didn't appreciate the significance of what was taking place until much later - after i had left school.

29th September 2005

Presented by Mark Lawson

Discussion: Overcoming Jewish Stereotypes

Taking part in the discussion tonight were the actor Henry Goodman, the biographer and critic Professor Hermione Lee and Anthony Julius who is working on a book about the subject for the Oxford University Press.

Items mentioned in discussion:

Roman Polanski and Ronald Harwood's 'Oliver Twist' starring Ben Kingsley as Fagin is released at cinemas nationwide October 7th certificate PG

You can buy the following films on DVD or video:
David Lean's 'Oliver Twist' starring Robert Newton, Alec Guiness and Oliver Reed.

A TV adaptation of the Royal National Theatre production of William Shakespeare's 'The Merchant of Venice' directed by Trevor Nunn starring Henry Goodman as Shylock. Certificate PG.

'The Merchant of Venice' directed by Michael Radford starring Al Pacino as Shylock.

'The Way We Live Now' directed by David Yates and serialised by Andrew Davies for BBC 1

'Daniel Deronda' adapted by Andrew Davies from George Eliot's novel has been released as a DVD in  America

Mike Leigh's play 'Two Thousand Years' continues in rep at the National Theatre until Tuesday 31 January 2006

David Mamet's play 'Romance' is at the Almeida theatre until 22 October 2005
'Nathan the Wise' by Gotthold Lessing is at the Hampstead Theatre 15 September - 15 October 2005

There is also a Tara Arts touring production of 'Merchant of Venice' set in Cochin, India:

29 September 2005 Queen's Hall Arts Centre Hexham
30 September 2005 Library Threatre Darwen
3 - 5 October 2005 Clocktower Croydon
6 - 8 October 2005 Artsdepot London


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Re: Oliver Twist (Roman Polanski version)
Reply #26 - 30. Sep 2005 at 05:27
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further reflections on `the jew question` :

Fagin with a new twist

By Norman Lebrecht, Evening Standard


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29 September 2005

Two masterpieces of English literature are undeniably anti-Semitic. In The Merchant of Venice, William Shakespeare depicts Shylock as a heartless usurer, a racial stereotype that many in his audience would have associated with the moneylenders that Jesus so righteously drove from the Temple in Jerusalem.

In Oliver Twist, Charles Dickens describes Fagin as "the Jew" - not once, by way of identification, but repeatedly, relentlessly, emphatically, to such an extent that the wicked old receiver of stolen goods is hardly ever mentioned by name, only by racial and religious origin.

In the first 38 chapters of Oliver Twist there are 257 references to "the Jew" against 42 to "Fagin" or "the old man". A more vicious stigmatisation of an ethnic community could hardly be imagined, and it was not by any means unintended.

Dickens, when challenged some years later, said that he had made Fagin Jewish because '"that class of criminal almost invariably was a Jew". There is no evidence to support this, nothing in the London crime statistics of the 1830s to suggest that Jews controlled gangs of boy pickpockets.

What the great social campaigner was spouting in this novel was ignorance tinged with old malice. There is an unmissable hint in Fagin, "villainous looking and repulsive", of the archetypal Jew who kidnaps Christian boys for their blood, an ancient libel that provoked many a pre-Easter pogrom.

Dickens's odious prejudice might be excused as conventional for its time were it not so excessive and Oliver Twist so compelling a novel, one of the most gripping narratives in the English language, infinitely transmissible from generation to generation. And with each fresh reading or dramatisation, the spectre of racial hatred hovers in the margins, gnawing at the unconscious.

A new film of Oliver Twist approaches, a cause for excitement and concern. There hasn't been a straight feature film adaptation since David Lean's in 1948, a monochrome morality tale in which Alec Guinness, as Fagin, held his character at arm's length to avoid any taint of infection and Kay Walsh (who died five months ago) was far too nice as Nancy to be Bill Sikes's moll.

In the filmed version of the musical Oliver! 20 years later, Ron Moody played Fagin for merry laughs and the raw menace of Oliver Reed's Sikes cornered the market in evil. Instead of dealing with racism, film has artfully dodged the issue.

Roman Polanski's new movie, with a script by the British playwright and novelist Ronald Harwood, is addressed at a target audience of children, the director having declared that he wanted for once to make a movie that his nine-year-old daughter could enjoy.

Polanski and Harwood are the new A-team of their art form, a latterday Verdi and Boito who found each other late in life and, with The Pianist, won an Oscar each for a harrowing tale sensitively told.

Both men are consciously Jewish. Neither, says Harwood, was bothered by Dickens's anti-Semitic overtones. "I can honestly say we never talked about it," insists Harwood. Polanski, asked if he ever discussed the moral dimensions of the story with his scriptwriter, said: "I wouldn't insult him. We're both grown men."

Harwood, transparent in his candour, has impressed on me that he "had no view on prejudice, all I wanted was to tell the story". But the way he approached the plot, and the way Polanski filmed it, is indicative itself of the problem they faced.

Polanski's Oliver Twist is an adventure story pure and simple, a ragstorags account of Oliver's progress from poorhouse to thieves' den, lit up by a glimmer of deliverance from the kindhearted Mr Brownlow. Polanski, in Harwood's view, empathises with Oliver from personal experience. "Roman was in the Krakow Ghetto: this is about a little boy who survives."

Harwood eliminates all subplots and secondary characters, all pre-history and post. The revelation of Oliver's true parentage, so important to snobbish Victorians, is erased. In its place we have flashes of Dickensian wit. "You are quite a literary character, Mr Bumble," says a passer-by, seeing the beadle with a book in hand.

A new study by an Australian academic, John Waller, argues that Dickens took his story from the memoirs of a poorhouse boy, Robert Blincoe, published in 1832, five years before Oliver. The Real Oliver Twist (Icon Books) may have uncovered a source of Dickensian detail, but no affinity of character.

As for Fagin, there is no telling where he came from. Dickens admitted that he knew no Jews at the time. Yet, like Shakespeare before him, he allowed the villain a certain endearing avuncularity. One feels Fagin's sorrow as he gives up Oliver to the custody of Sikes.

In Polanski's film Ben Kingsley endows the villain with tragic inevitability: a lonely old man, scrabbling for trinkets of security and a little human warmth. The story ends in his prison cell, gallows rising in the square outside.

Instead of Dickens's happy ending, showing Oliver's acceptance into polite society, the apotheosis is cruel and appropriately sanctimonious. In this, and most other ways, the film is true to the spirit of the story and of the author's ambiguities: for the blurring of anti-Semitism is something in which Dickens himself ultimately conspired.

In 1860, Dickens sold his London home to a Jewish banker, James Davis. "The purchaser of Tavistock House will be a Jew Money-Lender," he told a friend. Some time later he added: "I must say that in all things the purchaser has behaved thoroughly well, and that I cannot call to mind any occasion when I have had moneydealings with anyone that has been so satisfactory, considerate and trusting."

He took quite a shine to the banker's wife, Eliza Davis, who reproached him in a letter of 1863 for the "great wrong" he had committed in Oliver Twist. Two years later, Dickens created, in Our Mutual Friend, the noble character of Riah, an elderly Jew who finds jobs for downcast young women in Jewish-owned factories.

"I think there cannot be kinder people in the world," exclaims one of the girls. "There is nothing but good will left between me and a People for whom I have a real regard and to whom I would not willfully have given an offence," wrote Dickens to Mrs Davis.

He set about revising Oliver Twist in the light of her criticisms, removing almost all mention of "the Jew" from the last 15 chapters. In one of his final public readings in 1869, a year before his death, Dickens cleansed Fagin of stereotypical caricature. A contemporary report observed: "There is no nasal intonation; a bent back but no shoulder-shrug: the conventional attributes are omitted."

This attempt to make amends redeems Oliver Twist, for me, from the index of anti-Semitic English literature, a list that stretches from Chaucer through Marlowe to Trollope and Belloc, Agatha Christie and TS Eliot. It was certainly Dickens's final intention that "the Jew" should be incidental in Oliver Twist, and in his film Polanski has given the story a personal dimension that renders it irreproachably universal.


plus - a review.

movie better than dickens?

The best of Twists

Reviewed by Nick Curtis, Evening Standard (28 September 2005)

Novelist John Irving claimed recently that Roman Polanski's film of Oliver Twist was "better than Dickens".

I wouldn't go that far. But on its British premiere last night it struck me as a version of Dickens's novel that ranks equally with David Lean's starkly emotive, black-and-white 1948 adaptation and Carol Reed and Lionel Bart's counter-intuitively, gloriously upbeat 1968 musical, Oliver!

Polanski streamlines but generally does not sanitise the orphan Oliver's story. Inviting inevitable comparisons with his own wartime childhood in the Cracow ghetto, he has cut away subplots and characters to concentrate on how awful it is to be a child, alone and poor.

The film often feels as if it's shot from a nine-year-old's perspective and is the more urgent and pacy for it. And when Polanski turns the camera around, the soulful, largely mute face of his remarkable young star, Barney Clark, speaks volumes.

The director shows a delicacy and sureness of touch that was long missing from his work, until The Pianist (and its three Oscars) announced his return to form in 2002. Polanski's handling of the character of Oliver's protector/exploiter Fagin is particularly adroit.

Although Ben Kingsley looks and sounds much like Dickens's original racist caricature of a Jewish miser, Fagin's race is never alluded to here and he is a warmly sympathetic character compared with the workhouse officials or Jamie Foreman's psychotic Bill Sykes. This strikes me as an admirable way of neither airbrushing out nor apologising for a literary genius's most offensive attitudes.

Of course these days a certain prettification is necessary, even for a film largely financed, and shot, in Europe. Leanne Rowe's affecting Nancy and Harry Eden's charmingly cocky Artful Dodger both have strangely clean hair, teeth and skin, and the characters of Oliver's rich saviours are sketches of sweetness.

But these are quibbles. This Oliver Twist may not be better than Dickens, but it's level pegging with the best earlier adaptations, and up there with Polanski's own best work. High enough praise, I think.

• Oliver Twist opens on 7 October


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Re: Oliver Twist (Roman Polanski version)
Reply #27 - 30. Sep 2005 at 06:34
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i expect there'll be a deluge of media coverage in the next few days :

'We have a hell of a good time together'

(Filed: 30/09/2005)

Ronald Harwood, scriptwriter of The Pianist and now Oliver Twist, tells Jasper Rees about his friendship with the remarkable Roman Polanski

A few years ago, Roman Polanski saw a play in Paris about the conductor Wilhelm Furtwängler's relationship with the Third Reich. He had already acquired the rights to the memoir of Wladislaw Szpilman, a Polish-Jewish pianist who through resilience and luck managed to cheat the Nazis of one more victim. The play he saw, which ran in Paris for a year, was Taking Sides. Its author, Ronald Harwood, was promptly approached.

"I've always said to him, 'You're so unimaginative, Roman, because it's so obvious'," says Harwood now. "He thought, this is a play about Nazis and music: perhaps this is the guy to write The Pianist."

The Pianist somehow contrived to lose out to Chicago as best film in the 2003 Oscars, but Harwood, Polanski and the actor Adrien Brody all acquired statuettes. In the longer term, the writer and director's prizes were an opportunity to do it all over again. Polanski decided his next project would be to make a film his two children with the actress Emmanuelle Seignier could see (and, it turns out, have a cameo in).

A year passed. Harwood was doing an interview when the phone rang. "It was a Thursday. He said, 'Ronnie? Roman. I'm going to say two words. Oliver Twist.' I said, 'Terrific,' and put the phone down." They announced it the next day. On Monday, the money was in place, and Harwood started stripping the tedious sub-plots out of Dickens's early novel.

That was two years ago. The two men have much to be thankful for in their late-flowering friendship. "We were both in our mid-sixties and we became friends instantly. Which is rare at our age. We are more cautious." He is conscious of the difference from his relationship with the great Hungarian director István Szabó, who has also filmed two recent Harwood screenplays - Taking Sides and Being Julia. "Szabó is much more withheld. I'd be cautious of being too confiding in him. Roman is very out-going, much more explosive, which suits my character. We have a hell of a good time together."

Bizarrely, their first good times together came when Harwood and Polanski met to revise the script of The Pianist. "Roman used to say, 'How many Jews did we kill today?' I'd say, 'About 10 or 12.' 'Not enough!' And then we'd fall about like children. It was our defence mechanism. The material is bleak." Their bond derives not only from Jewishness but also from a shared rootlessness. Polanski has famously lived everywhere. Harwood's people, as revealed in his epic genealogical novel Home, came from Poland via South Africa. He arrived in Britain to train as an actor in 1951.

They never discussed Fagin's ethnicity. "In the novel, no one calls Fagin a Jew except the narrator. I think it's probably accurate. There were probably Jewish fences in the East End of London. Fagin is a very complex figure in the book, and much simplified in other versions." Fagin was the cause of Polanski's infidelity to Dickens. Harwood, now based in Paris, insisted on ending the film with Oliver visiting the prison where Fagin is held to pray for him as he awaits the gallows. "He always starts with the end of a script," says Harwood. Did he resent the interpolation? "No! He's a great filmmaker. My God, I'd be stupid to resist."

Before they met, Harwood was familiar with Polanski's work but, he says, "Polanski didn't know mine very well. He loves The Dresser. He wanted to play the dresser, which I'd love him to do." (Polanski still acts - he has played Mozart in Amadeus in French and Polish. Harwood gave up, but got a play out of it.)

Until The Pianist, Polanski had struggled for years to match the impact of Rosemary's Baby, Chinatown and Tess. Has Harwood been integral to his creative renaissance? "I tell him I have been but I don't know if he buys it. The Pianist must have released something in him."

And yet when they were adapting Szpilman's memoir, Polanski's memories of the Kraków ghetto went largely unmentioned. "Occasionally, he would say, 'I tell you what happened to me,' but it's always as if it happened to someone else. He doesn't dwell. He doesn't indulge."

The flavour of autobiography seems just as present in Oliver Twist, another picaresque narrative in which a small orphan wanders through a malignant universe. And when Sykes bludgeons Nancy to death, it is hard to imagine that Polanski was not in some way reliving the 1969 Manson murders which claimed his wife Sharon Tate. "That hadn't occurred to me to this moment," says Harwood. "One thing is for certain, we didn't discuss that."

Recently, Vanity Fair alleged that Polanski made a pass at a woman while stopping off in New York on the way to Tate's funeral. This summer he sued the magazine's London edition and won. But as he is still unable to travel to this country owing to the UK's extradition treaty with the US, where he has long been wanted in connection with allegations of sex with a minor, he gave evidence by video link.

"I sat with him all through that. It was fun. It was bloody nerve-racking, actually. But it was fun that he won. Vanity Fair published a grotesque untruth about him, and why they were so shocked is they thought he didn't have a reputation to damage… No one I know has had a life like Roman. No one. That's the beauty of Roman: he's a survivor, and he has survived well."

Meanwhile, Harwood's Indian summer continues apace with adaptations of Love in a Time of Cholera and The Diving Bell and the Butterfly. "I'm going to be 71 this year, I'm working more than I've ever worked in my life before, and I'm certainly getting paid more." Can cinema-goers expect the final part in a trilogy of collaborations? "We haven't found anything. He always says, 'I'll know when I have the next subject, I'll get an erection.' He's 71 now. It may take some time."


plus the all-important money for barney!! - from the daily mail :

his earnings of £50,000 for his first starring role hardly put him in the big league.

but rather like oliver twist - the part that is about to make his name - barney clark will soon be asking : "please sir, can i have some more?"

the 12-year-old, who is from hackney in north-east london, was chosen to follow john howard davies and mark lester in portraying one of charles dickens's most famous characters.

barney was paid four times the usual wage for a child actor for the five-month shoot in the czech republic.

although his pay hardly compares to the £1 million-plus of his co-star sir ben kingsley it is unlikely to be long before the money pours in.

barney's next wage packet will be the subject of heated negotiation by hollywood super-agent jeff berg, chairman of international creative management, who flew to london to sign him up last week.

barney who attends central foundation, a state boys' school in islington, has showbusiness in his blood.

his father ivan, 47, is an executive at the showbusiness agency Mark Borkowski PR which represents eddie izzard, graham norton, sir cliff richard and prince.

barney's mother julie balloo, 46, once dated paul merton and is the best friend and writing partner of comedienne jenny eclair.

barney first went on stage aged three playing the woodcutter in little red riding hood at nursery school


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Re: Oliver Twist (Roman Polanski version)
Reply #28 - 01. Oct 2005 at 01:37
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apple,

..you have a knack of finding some great articles.

Thanks for this lot...  very interesting reading. Reviews seem to be mixed and I think some of the negative ones are forgetting that Polanski has intentionally made this movie to suit kids.
  
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Re: Oliver Twist (Roman Polanski version)
Reply #29 - 01. Oct 2005 at 08:06
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"some of the negative ones are forgetting that Polanski has intentionally made this movie to suit kids."

That's true. Just because it's Polansky, for some reason, everyone seemed to expect that this would be a brutal, dark and disturbing film, even though he said he made it so his nine-year-old daughter could enjoy it.
  
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