Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5  Print
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Låt den rätte komma in (2008) (Read 40,371 times)
K
Ex Member


Re: Let the Right One In (2008)
Reply #30 - 01. May 2009 at 03:44
Print Post  
Yes, I'm biased against bad Hollywood movies but I like good ones. There are some very good ones of course but the bad ones far outnumber them. I'm biased, you're biased. Everyone has some sort of bias.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Andreas_N
Gold Member
****
Offline


BA Member

Posts: 283
Location: Klagenfurt, Austria
Joined: 02. Nov 2005
Gender: Male
Re: Let the Right One In (2008)
Reply #31 - 01. May 2009 at 16:31
Print Post  
Quote:
Yes, I'm biased against bad Hollywood movies but I like good ones. There are some very good ones of course but the bad ones far outnumber them. I'm biased, you're biased. Everyone has some sort of bias.


This is definitely true, but I still don't really agree with me having had a prejudice against Let the Right One In. I didn't watch that movie thinking that it was likely to suck. I wasn't too enthusiastic about what I saw, but that is neither a bias nor a prejudice. However it is very much a bias when some folks (like joseph, but no offense!) say that a Hollywood remake would definitely be shit. Now with that kind of opinion in mind, it's hard to approach such a remake (if any ever comes out) with an open mind.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
josephk
Platinum Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 3,981
Location: Canada
Joined: 01. Apr 2002
Re: Let the Right One In (2008)
Reply #32 - 01. May 2009 at 17:53
Print Post  
It may be a bias to say the Hollywood remake will be shit, but it's a bias that is based on experience and trends in Hollywood. Look at how many remakes come out every year and what the Hollywood treatment usually does to the original source material. Even you agree what those differences are likely to be: faster pace, more action, more plot, etc. The only difference between your expectations and mine is that you happen to like that kind of treatment and I don't.

So I don't think I am any more or less biased than you are. We actually seem to agree on what a Hollywood remake of this film would be like. And it's very likely that you will enjoy it and I won't, because you and I look for different things in films.

Of course, there are some exceptions and there have been a few remakes that I enjoyed. One example is Steven Soderbergh's remake of Solaris. I'm a huge fan of Tarkovsky. I think he's one of the most brilliant and important filmmakers of the cinema's history, and his film adaptation of Solaris is flawless and couldn't be improved upon. So in theory a Hollywood remake should be absolute garbage. However, Soderbergh is actually quite a talented, smart and interesting director in his own right, and what he did with that project was not try to transform Tarkovsky's masterpiece into a Hollywood film, but rather go back to the source material (the novel) and look for a different angle to approach it from. He came up with his own interpretation of the material, focusing on themes that were not necessarily the dominant ones in Tarkovsky's film. As a result, he made an amazing film - I think the best of his career - and although it's not quite the monumental achievement that Tarkovsky's film was, Soderbergh's version of Solaris is one of my favourite films too.

So if a talented American director was to get the film rights to the novel and come up with a different adaptation of the novel (which, by the way, is VERY different from the film), it might be an interesting project. But if it's just a major studio trying to cash in on a mildly successful European film by giving it a typical Hollywood treatment, assigning some talentless hack director, marketing it towards teens and young adults, I can guarantee that it's going to be a lesser film. You and a lot of people will probably enjoy it more. But it's still going to be a lesser artistic achievement.

And I don't think that's a bias or prejudice. It's just a lucid observation of how Hollywood operates.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
cal-Q-L8
Platinum Member
*****
Offline


Admin

Posts: 8,002
Location: Australia
Joined: 30. Oct 2001
Gender: Male
Re: Let the Right One In (2008)
Reply #33 - 02. May 2009 at 11:46
Print Post  
Perhaps the word 'expectation' would be worth using here. I'm definitely agreeing with Joseph, in fact there is nothing in his post just above that I would disagree with. After seeing many Hollywood remakes, my expectations about them are quite low and usually unenthusiastic. That is certainly not prejudice, it is an educated guess based on many previous experiences. However, in the rare instance when Hollywood does get it right, I'd be more than happy to heap praise where it is due.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Andreas_N
Gold Member
****
Offline


BA Member

Posts: 283
Location: Klagenfurt, Austria
Joined: 02. Nov 2005
Gender: Male
Re: Let the Right One In (2008)
Reply #34 - 03. May 2009 at 12:04
Print Post  
cal-Q-L8 wrote on 02. May 2009 at 11:46:
Perhaps the word 'expectation' would be worth using here. I'm definitely agreeing with Joseph, in fact there is nothing in his post just above that I would disagree with. After seeing many Hollywood remakes, my expectations about them are quite low and usually unenthusiastic. That is certainly not prejudice, it is an educated guess based on many previous experiences. However, in the rare instance when Hollywood does get it right, I'd be more than happy to heap praise where it is due.


Okay, then it's an educated guess based on previous experiences when I consider movies from certain countries as boring, long-winded and lame.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
josephk
Platinum Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 3,981
Location: Canada
Joined: 01. Apr 2002
Re: Let the Right One In (2008)
Reply #35 - 28. May 2009 at 15:57
Print Post  
I just finished reading the novel on which this movie is based. I thought you might be interested in some of my thoughts on it.

The book and movie are different, but both interesting. I don't even really want to say that one is better than the other, although if I had to choose I'd probably go with the movie. But they complement each other in really interesting ways, and the novel was a really compelling read, even though I knew all the major plot points from having seen the movie.

SPOILERS AHEAD - for both the movie and the book. I will discuss things that are different in the book, so you might consider them spoilers even if you have seen the movie.

One major difference in the book is that the character of Hakan (the man who lives with Eli) is much more developed. We find out about his history, how he met Eli, and his motivations for staying with her.

In the movie, he dies when he falls out of the window of the hospital, and that's the end of his story. But in the novel, the story takes on a radically different turn at that point. The novel explains that the vampire infection can live on even if the human body dies. Whenever vampires feed on someone, they have to kill them quickly before the infection takes hold. Because once they are infected, you basically can't kill them. With Hakan, the infection had already taken hold by the time he fell to his death twelve storeys below. He then turns into a kind of vampire/zombie - everything that is horrific and monster-like about the vampire, but without a human conscience to guide it.

In the movie, it's maybe hinted at that this character has a thing for young boys, but never explicitly so. In the book, there is absolutely no doubt that the character is a pedophile. While I was weary of this at first (it's easy to make a villain an evil pedophile so people feel no pity for him), it was actually handled in a much more sophisticated way than I expected.

There are almost no completely evil characters in the book, with the possible exception of the sadists who castrated Elias and made him into a vampire (this is something we find out in brief flashbacks). All the other "villains" are portrayed in such a way that they are only villains from one perspective. This is the case with pedophile character - he's a murderer, but he doesn't really want to be. He's doing it because he's desperate and because he's in love with Eli. He is completely devoted to her and will go to any lengths to ensure her safety and well-being. That's actually an admirable trait. Only from the perspective of the victims and the other town folks does he appear as a villain or a monster (pre-infection, that is).

The same can be said of Eli: She's obviously a very sympathetic character, but from the perspective of some of the other characters, she's a monster who killed one of their friends and infected another.

Or the bullies: Jonny is a sadistic bully who relentlessly tortures Oskar. His behaviour is inexcusable. And yet, he's also portrayed as a victim of his upbringing. In the book, there are very moving scenes about his relationship to his brother and their absent father. All they have from him is a photo album, which gets destroyed in a fire that Oskar starts at the school. These extra details humanize the bullies and even explains why they decide to go after Oskar at the end. Oskar has destroyed something that was extremely valuable to them, so you can understand their rage and desire for revenge (even if ultimately you're probably still siding with Oskar).

I think the author's intention was to create a portrait of a town, in which characters clash with each other but there is no concept of evil. It's a very relativistic moral. Ultimately, everyone is just trying to deal with their pain and suffering in the best way they can, even if doing so causes them to inflict more pain on other people. And I think the fact that the author chose to make one of these characters a pedophile - generally the most universally hated and demonized criminal type our society can come up with - is very telling as to his intentions. He shows that even the pedophile, which society thinks of as the ultimate monster, is essentially a good person.

Only when the pedophile dies does he finally turn into the monster that society imagines he is. Basically, the way I interpret his transformation is that, as a pedophile, he had this intense physical desire for Eli. But as a human being, this desire was filtered through his emotions (mainly love) and his reasoning (he's willingly controlling his desire because Eli doesn't reciprocate his feelings and he respects that, etc.). Once the human being in him dies, only that desire is left. And coupled with the vampire infection's insatiable predatory instinct, he becomes the worst possible monster imaginable - a crazy, unstoppable, child-molesting vampire/zombie predator with an eternally erect thingy!! If that's not a materialization/projection of society's worse nightmares and fears about pedophilia, I don't know what is!

(I'll continue in the next post, as my full review is longer than the character limit for individual posts on this forum.)
« Last Edit: 28. May 2009 at 18:07 by josephk »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
josephk
Platinum Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 3,981
Location: Canada
Joined: 01. Apr 2002
Re: Let the Right One In (2008)
Reply #36 - 28. May 2009 at 16:01
Print Post  
Another thing that is elaborated upon in the novel is Eli's gender. The movie clearly shows that Eli is not a girl, but in fact a castrated boy. But it doesn't tell us how this happened. In the novel, flashbacks reveal that he was castrated and tortured by the sadistic vampire who eventually infected him. We also find out that his real name is Elias.

But why did Elias, after having been castrated, decide to adopt a female persona and live as a girl. I don't really know what that says about the author's understanding of gender issues.

Cutting off a boy's thingy doesn't turn him into a girl. Was Elias secretly transgendered before being castrated? Not likely. Perhaps a better explanation is that gender is a human invention. Once you become a vampire, gender ceases to make sense, or you no longer feel any affinity to one gender or the other. We also don't know what he went through after he became a vampire. Perhaps Elias' sadistic masters made him dress as a girl after his transformation and he simply accepted this new persona. It's important to note that Elias doesn't think of himself as female, even though he presents himself as one. (In the later chapters from his perspective, the male pronoun "he" is used, not "she".) Eli never seems to care about the clothes he/she wears. He/she picks a dress out of the closet because it was the one article of clothing that "looked the most worn." Gender just seems like a non-issue to him/her.

*

Conclusion: it's a very interesting read, which explores many issues only hinted at in the movie. I recommend it.
« Last Edit: 28. May 2009 at 18:11 by josephk »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Andreas_N
Gold Member
****
Offline


BA Member

Posts: 283
Location: Klagenfurt, Austria
Joined: 02. Nov 2005
Gender: Male
Re: Let the Right One In (2008)
Reply #37 - 28. May 2009 at 21:26
Print Post  
Nice piece of information, thank you very much for sharing your thoughts.

The info of Eli actually having been a boy is a very intruiging aside to the whole story.

The novel sounds better than the movie was, imo.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
josephk
Platinum Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 3,981
Location: Canada
Joined: 01. Apr 2002
Re: Let the Right One In (2008)
Reply #38 - 29. May 2009 at 03:43
Print Post  
Quote:
The info of Eli actually having been a boy is a very intruiging aside to the whole story.


I wouldn't call it an aside. I think it's a central piece of information that gives the story a lot of its depth. It's also something that you should be able to deduce from the movie if you pay close attention, though it's very easy to miss.

Quote:
The novel sounds better than the movie was, imo.


Personally, I think the movie was perfect as it was, and if the director had tried to cram all the additional information from the novel into the movie it would have been a very bad mistake. Instead of a subtle and moody masterpiece, we probably would have ended up with a convoluted mess filled with awkward expository dialogue.

So I enjoyed the movie for what it was and the book for what it was. I wouldn't have wanted either to be different.

Having said that, though, I do think that you would enjoy the book more than you enjoyed the movie. So I encourage you to pick up a copy if you are interested.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TheSwede
Platinum Member
*****
Offline


Tack ska du ha.

Posts: 1,069
Location: USA
Joined: 18. Sep 2006
Gender: Male
Re: Let the Right One In (2008)
Reply #39 - 29. May 2009 at 05:43
Print Post  
josephk wrote on 28. May 2009 at 16:01:
Another thing that is elaborated upon in the novel is Eli's gender. The movie clearly shows that Eli is not a girl, but in fact a castrated boy.

wow. 

I've always wondered what the heck that was all about.  That, and why it never made the blond kid ask more questions when Eli said "I'm not a girl" or whatever.  I thought it just meant: "I'm a vampire, which can't really be classified as a boy or girl."

And the closeup of Eli, well that *didn't* really tell me he was a castrated boy.  I was like "what the heck is that?  it's horizontal!" Not having read many vampire books (maybe none)... I thought that was just another one of those hidden little facts about "female" vampires!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Andreas_N
Gold Member
****
Offline


BA Member

Posts: 283
Location: Klagenfurt, Austria
Joined: 02. Nov 2005
Gender: Male
Re: Let the Right One In (2008)
Reply #40 - 29. May 2009 at 09:13
Print Post  
josephk wrote on 29. May 2009 at 03:43:
Quote:
The info of Eli actually having been a boy is a very intruiging aside to the whole story.


I wouldn't call it an aside. I think it's a central piece of information that gives the story a lot of its depth. It's also something that you should be able to deduce from the movie if you pay close attention, though it's very easy to miss.

Quote:
The novel sounds better than the movie was, imo.


Personally, I think the movie was perfect as it was, and if the director had tried to cram all the additional information from the novel into the movie it would have been a very bad mistake. Instead of a subtle and moody masterpiece, we probably would have ended up with a convoluted mess filled with awkward expository dialogue.

So I enjoyed the movie for what it was and the book for what it was. I wouldn't have wanted either to be different.

Having said that, though, I do think that you would enjoy the book more than you enjoyed the movie. So I encourage you to pick up a copy if you are interested.


TheSwede wrote on 29. May 2009 at 05:43:
josephk wrote on 28. May 2009 at 16:01:
Another thing that is elaborated upon in the novel is Eli's gender. The movie clearly shows that Eli is not a girl, but in fact a castrated boy.

wow. 

I've always wondered what the heck that was all about.  That, and why it never made the blond kid ask more questions when Eli said "I'm not a girl" or whatever.  I thought it just meant: "I'm a vampire, which can't really be classified as a boy or girl."

And the closeup of Eli, well that *didn't* really tell me he was a castrated boy.  I was like "what the heck is that?  it's horizontal!" Not having read many vampire books (maybe none)... I thought that was just another one of those hidden little facts about "female" vampires!


I was assuming pretty much the same, that this "I'm not a girl" was Eli's way of saying "watch out, dude, I'm not human but a dangerous bloodsucker". The same applies for the second scene you mention, Swede, this closeup of Eli' (missing) privates allowed for various interpretations. Without actually knowing, you wouldn't easily come to the conclusion that Eli is a castrated boy. The rather female looks and attire were too obvious for me to be doubtful about this issue.

That's why I called it an aside, joseph, because it doesn't really change the movie as a whole too much, it just allows for new interpretations of various scenes and probably makes you assess some moments in a different light. I do appreciate it being a major issue in the book, it definitely isn't in the movie, because without reading the original novel, you would hardly interpret those scenes accordingly.

As for your reading recommendation, I might get back to it some day. Right now I'm busy reading the biography of Brigadier-General and Georgia lawyer Thomas R.R. Cobb ( (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)) and translating Cicero's huge philosophical discourse De Oratore about the perfect orator ( (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links))
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
josephk
Platinum Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 3,981
Location: Canada
Joined: 01. Apr 2002
Re: Let the Right One In (2008)
Reply #41 - 29. May 2009 at 14:31
Print Post  
Quote:
That's why I called it an aside, joseph, because it doesn't really change the movie as a whole too much, it just allows for new interpretations of various scenes and probably makes you assess some moments in a different light. I do appreciate it being a major issue in the book, it definitely isn't in the movie, because without reading the original novel, you would hardly interpret those scenes accordingly.


Well, I did. I figured out that Eli was a boy before I had started reading the novel. (I didn't get it right away, but upon discussing it with the friend who had seen the film with me at the cinema, we pretty much came to that conclusion, after which I confirmed it by doing research on the book.)

Just because something is not stated explicitly or made very obvious in a movie doesn't mean it's not important. In my opinion, the fact that one character appears to be a girl but is in fact a boy is more than an aside, and no matter how subtle it may be or how many people miss it, it doesn't make it any less important and central to the story. It does a lot more than just cause you to reinterpret one or two scenes. It changes everything: the psychology, background and motivations of the characters, their relationship and the thematic implications of it.

To be fair, though, I do agree the close-up is confusing. It also flashes by pretty quickly, so in a threatre, you can't pause, rewind, study it and think about what the hell it is you're seeing. But it's shown that way because Oskar only gets a glimpse of it. So it's ambiguous. But I think it's good for movies to be ambiguous. Ideally, a scene like that will not spell everything out for you immediately, but it should at least cause you to wonder and try to work things out for yourself, and then maybe watch the movie again once you have. That's what it did for me. But I made the extra effort because I thought the movie was good and that there was a lot going on underneath the surface. You dismissed the movie as boring, shallow and poorly acted, so I guess it didn't inspire you to think about it any further.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
josephk
Platinum Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 3,981
Location: Canada
Joined: 01. Apr 2002
Re: Let the Right One In (2008)
Reply #42 - 29. May 2009 at 14:57
Print Post  
PS: I hope my last comment didn't sound condescending. I just meant that if you don't like a movie, it's normal that you wouldn't be interested in looking deeper into it. I do the same things with movies I don't like.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Andreas_N
Gold Member
****
Offline


BA Member

Posts: 283
Location: Klagenfurt, Austria
Joined: 02. Nov 2005
Gender: Male
Re: Let the Right One In (2008)
Reply #43 - 29. May 2009 at 16:37
Print Post  
Fair enough, joseph Smiley

You're probably right, once I had made up my mind about not liking this film too much, I guess I closed my mind for further investigations and pondering.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TheSwede
Platinum Member
*****
Offline


Tack ska du ha.

Posts: 1,069
Location: USA
Joined: 18. Sep 2006
Gender: Male
Re: Let the Right One In (2008)
Reply #44 - 30. May 2009 at 04:32
Print Post  
and as for me... I enjoyed it quite a bit, but never reached the conclusion that Eli was a girl... but KNOWING IT NOW, it sure changes how everything played out.

I still don't quite know who that man was that was with Eli, protecting her .... er, him.  Many mysteries remain... maybe a future reading of the book!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 
Print